Dating zildjian stamps

A. ZILDJIAN CYMBAL STAMP CHRONOLOGY DATE TIMELINE

All Avedis Zildjian cymbals have their name stamped in its bronze. But, we have 2 problems. 1. There is no official track record of the stamps used by Zildjian. And 2. The proces of stamping wasn't very accurate and the imprint varies. So, it is difficult to exactly determine the period that certain stamps were used. We know Avedis Zildjian started production in 1929 in the Quincy, Massachusetts USA.

Old cymbals. In the thirties Zildjian's most popular cymbal measured between 8 and 14 inch, weight paperthin, easily bendable. Drummers also used small but heavy brass cymbals. In the fourties Bebop drummers began to use larger rides and sizzle cymbals. Ride size ranged up to 30 inch and 16 inch Hihats are known from this era. Cymbal weight stepped up with popular music. In the fifties and later little inkstamps on odd shaped models say SWISH, PANG or FLANGED HI-HATS, MEDIUM RIDE etc. Some stories tell about drumshops stamping cymbals according client preferences.

The first fifty years of A. Zildjian can be divided in 6 types as seen below. This is also known as the 'pre-ink' period, so before mid 1970s when Zildjian started the silkscreen ink stamps on the bottom with the open ink-stamp logo.

Introduction

Introduction to Cymbal Stamp Timelines

This website offers information about the age of cymbals based on the “stamps” found on them. Cymbals are engraved with a trademark by the maker. These stamps are the only reliable way to determine the age of the cymbals. The engraved stamp cannot be erased because it is in the metal. Most other identifying information (stickers, silk screens, ink or grease pencil) fade away and disappear over time.

The date of a cymbal is important because different periods in the evolution of the modern drum set are marked by distinct acoustic potentials. These differences are available in the cymbals associated with the different eras of the drum set (grandstand, jazz, bop, big band, rock, etc.)

The old Zildjian cymbal foundry was in Constantinople, dating back to the 17th century. The earliest Zildjian cymbals with complete stamps (logo, name, trademark) use the letter “K” for Kerope Zildjian, and are marked with Constantinople as the city of origin. Click here to see a timeline of K Constantinople cymbals .

Constantinople was re-named Istanbul by the Government of Turkey in 1930. There is some argumentation about when the K Zildjian cymbals begin to be stamped with “Istanbul” and it is likely that many consumers wanted cymbals from Constantinople long after the city had changed its name. Today, K Zildjian cymbals from the Istanbul period are perhaps the most sought after vintage cymbals in the world. Click here to see a timeline of K Istanbul cymbals .

The Avedis Zildjian company started making K Zildjian cymbals in a factory in Medutic, Canada in 1977. They brought a few cymbalsmiths from Istanbul to Canada following the shutdown of the Turkish foundry. Later the operation was moved to USA. Read more about the K Zildjian cymbals from Canada and later USA.

Avedis Zildjian came to the United States and started making cymbals under the label “A Zildjian” in 1929 in Quincy, Massachusetts. These were contemporaneous with the K Zildjians from Turkey, but the styles diverge greatly. Click here to see a timeline of A Zildjian cymbals .

Before the Swish and Trash cymbals, there was the imported cymbals of China. Made from the same bronze formula as Turkish cymbals (B20), the Chinese used a completely different method to produce their cymbals. I became fascinated with the story of the oldest Chinese cymbals in vintage collections in the United States, and the Chinese Cymbal Timeline is the result. Click here to see a timeline of early Chinese cymbals imported to the US.

Vintage Italian cymbals were produced by a collective: the “Union of Italian Cymbal Manufacturers” (Italian: Unione Fabbricanti Italiani Piatti) or UFIP, under many different brands. Click here to see a timeline of Italian cymbals from the UFIP group.

History

The Zildjian Family (of Turkey) represents the longest running cymbal-producing lineage outside of China. Their lineage dates back to the 1600s. K erope Zildjian ran the factory that produced the K Zildjian line of cymbals, in Constantinople (Istanbul).

In 1929, Avedis Zildjian III, moved part of the family cymbal business to Massachusetts. He took a suggestion from Jo Jones, drummer for Count Basie, and mounted cymbals on a pole creating the “hi-hat.” Another idea from Gene Kruppa, drummer for Benny Goodman, led to a big cymbal with a lot of ping called a “ride.” (Wall Street Journal, 5/31/96, p. B1)

Other identifying features

Other cymbal identifiers may be lost over time, such as stickers, ink labels, grease pencil writing, and signatures under the bell.

Old Stamp I (1930s-1945)

Old Stamp IIa (1945-1949)

The phrase ‘K Zildjian’ was shrunk compared to the preceding stamp.

Also now the font for the word “Istanbul” is as tall as the star and moon. Stamp I used a smaller font which was shorter than the star and moon.

Old Stamp IIb (1949-1950)

Old Stamp IIIa (1950-53)

Old Stamp IIIb (1953-1956)

Old Stamp IVa (1957-58)

Intermediate Stamp (1959-1966)

11 comments

I have a set of 14″ K Zildjian & Cie Hi Hat/Orchestra cymbals with the G stamp on the edge so I’ve spent a great deal of time researching the timeline. I found that when Turkey got it’s independence in 1923 they changed the name to Istanbul which was what they (the Turks) had always called it. The rest of the world and Zildjian continued to use Constantinople until early 1930 when by law everything made in Istanbul had to say Made In Istanbul and the rest of the world followed suit when the Turkish Post Office would no longer deliver mail addressed to Constantinople. These hats are amazing by the way and in great condition in every way. These would’ve been imported by Gretsch between 1926 when Gretsch became the sole importer & 1930 and can be seen in old catalogs. I’ve heard that these are highly regarded by orchestra musicians and that that is where most of them reside. They are the “Holy Grail”.

Oops, forgot to add that they are K Zildjian & Cie Constantinople Hats.

Scott, your description of the sequence of events associated with the name-change from “Constantinople” to “Istanbul” sounds to be consistent with what I’ve read. Is there any chance you could send me a picture of your 1926-1930 era stamp? I’ve also been trying to compile a timeline of those stamps, though it is much more difficult: http://www. robscott. net/cymbals/?page_id=157

p. s. I have also heard, more than once, that in fact the K factory continued to use the “Constantinople” stamp waay into the 1930s. Which would mean that any stamp with Istanbul is presumed 1940 or later. I would like to see some proof, however, such as an advertisement found within a dated publication.

Thanks to the info on your website i think i have a pair of 30′s-40′s 15inch hi hats, the markings are more or less identical to those shown (a little worn) my old man purchased these as a jazz player in the 40′s 50′s. Must have had a good ear they are excellent! thanks again…

Tony Brown, January 25, 2011

Regarding the “Intermediate Stamp (1959-1966)” photos:

is the shape of the K important? the right leg of the K in the 2nd picture extends below the left leg but in the first pic it doesn’t.

I’ve got one like the 2nd picture so i’m wondering….i don’t see that type of K in any other stamps on your site at all

I’d imagine that is diagnostic of a particular period

tia for the help

John, February 1, 2011

I see what you are referring to, where part of the letter K missing. It is common for the intermediate stamp to have letters that are missing parts, or letters that are completely absent.

All cymbal stamps degrade over time, so the quality of stamp varies from cymbal to cymbal over the years. With the intermediate stamp, specific letters lost components that were never regained. Thus, you can look at a given word, such as the word “zildjian” and see how all the letters were complete in early examples (circa 1959, presumably), then later the were lost (during the 1960s). The more letters and components that are missing, the later it was made.

That’s one theory by which missing and incomplete elements from the intermediate stamp could function as a diagnostic for dating specific cymbals.

There are old new stamps and new new stamps. The one you’ve got here is an old new stamp. The new new stamps have a gap between the Arabic and the English, and they date to the later part of the decade, 1972-1977.

I have an old set of K hi hats that I bought in the 1970s. Looking at this they would seem to be 1972-77. I have been told they can fetch high prices – how much might a set of 14″ be worth. I’m just curious as i had no idea they were now considered ‘rare’.

They are both 14″. One weighs 800 grammes, the other 740 grammes. They need a clean (?) but are in generally good condition – no dents, cracks or anything.

Nick, July 7, 2012

I have what appears to be a 13″ type IIA however the word ISTANBUL has two A’s instead of 1 or ISTAANBUL. What can you tell me about that?